Switched from Regular to Premium gas. 4Runner runs better (more power & smoother)

[ah4rsr5]

What about Regular 88 at places like Sheetz where its ethanol is at 15%. Per the manual, this should be okay?... Higher Octane but also higher ethanol content... however significantly cheaper than Regular 87.

What do you think?

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[Nodak]

i thought the manual said 10% ?

its 15% but personally i wouldn't go past 10%

and the price difference between 87 and 89 is not that much to stay within 10%

but 88% that is a weird not seldom seen rating

 

[ah4rsr5]

Looks like it says up to 15%. Page 624 in the manual

 

[Lucky09]

Both the LC and 4R have a 11:1 compression ratio.

I have not yet read a reasonable explanation why Toyota recommends 87 for the 4R and 91 for the LC?

You are are absolutely correct.
They LC and 4runner have the same compression ratio.
My mistake for gathering my data from YouTube review.

 

[drNick]

The point is, this is the same engine in the Land Cruiser and the 4Runner we are talking about. Works objectively better with premium gas, but whoever wants to save on gas and spend later on engine repairs is free to do so. It is a free country after all and we have the freedom to spend our money the way we want. Personally I don’t trust anything, any manufacturer is telling, especially if in this particular case will benefit from post warranty repairs. There is a science and engineering behind using a premium gasoline in high compression engines, and I trust this over Toyota’s suggestions.

 

[brumey]

Assuming using 91 or 93 results in more HP and better response. Does using Tier 1 87 octane cause any damage or premature failure? Seems that DrNick is suggesting that and I strongly doubt that is the case. I am however open to factual and documented evidence stating that running your 4R on higher octane fuel results in longer reliability?

Love to see the facts.......

As for the question on oil change intervals, that is another thread and many exist. This is about fuel octane levels, benefits and BS.

 

[drNick]

Assuming using 91 or 93 results in more HP and better response. Does using Their 1 87 octane cause any damage or premature failure? Seems that DrNick is suggesting that and I strongly doubt that is the case. I am however open to factual and documented evidence stating that running your 4R on higher octane fuel results in longer reliability?

Love to see the facts.......

As for the question on oil change intervals, that is another thread and many exist. This is about fuel octane levels, benefits and BS.

There is a solid science behind it. Watch the video. If the engine of my car runs better on premium, and is designed for premium fuel to begin with as is the case with Toyota 2.4 Turbo, I will run it on premium. Everyone else is free to do as they want.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

The point is, this is the same engine in the Land Cruiser and the 4Runner we are talking about. Works objectively better with premium gas, but whoever wants to save on gas and spend later on engine repairs is free to do so. It is a free country after all and we have the freedom to spend our money the way we want. Personally I don’t trust anything, any manufacturer is telling, especially if in this particular case will benefit from post warranty repairs. There is a science and engineering behind using a premium gasoline in high compression engines, and I trust this over Toyota’s suggestions.

You purchase a Toyota vehicle because, I would assume, that you trusted that they engineered and built a quality product but you "don't trust anything any manufacturer is telling....."

It seems you think that Toyota is intentionally misleading their customers so that they have mechanical issues down the road, after the warranty expires.

Hmmmmm.......fascinating.

 

[Lucky09]

I think the video is pointing shell's quality of fuel due to the additives. Not all fuel is created equal. He states Shell fuel with the additives, which they only put in the premium fuel, is the best fuel for a vehicle. That was due to the additives, not the octane level.
You can have crumby Premium fuel. Premium does not mean quality.

 

[brumey]

I think the video is pointing shell's quality of fuel due to the additives. Not all fuel is created equal. He states Shell fuel with the additives, which they only put in the premium fuel, is the best fuel for a vehicle. That was due to the additives, not the octane level.
You can have crumby Premium fuel. Premium does not mean quality.

Not been able to watch the video yet but good catch. Shell always did the additive thing in its premium.

Still waiting for justification on why using higher octane improved long term reliability?

 

[HVLA]

You purchase a Toyota vehicle because, I would assume, that you trusted that they engineered and built a quality product but you "don't trust anything any manufacturer is telling....."

It seems you think that Toyota is intentionally misleading their customers so that they have mechanical issues down the road, after the warranty expires.

Hmmmmm.......fascinating.

They are misleading the customers. They recommend 87 so they dont lose their market.

 

[TRD Pro or Die Trying]

This is a good thread because we've got people making pretty compelling arguments on both sides. It's just making me confused. I originally thought that Toyota says to use 87 gas, so that's what I'll do. But I plan on using my 4Runner for 15+ years and want to do what is best for the longevity of my car. I don't really care about extra hp, but now I'm leaning the other direction and I think I'll start using the 91 gas.

 

[brumey]

This is a good thread because we've got people making pretty compelling arguments on both sides. It's just making me confused. I originally thought that Toyota says to use 87 gas, so that's what I'll do. But I plan on using my 4Runner for 15+ years and want to do what is best for the longevity of my car. I don't really care about extra hp, but now I'm leaning the other direction and I think I'll start using the 91 gas.

I am curious to what you have read here that identified any factual data that says using higher octane in a Toyota 4R will improve long term reliability. I have not seen legitimate proof yet but I may have missed something.

I too plan to keep my vehicle 10-15 years, maybe more. I have a Ford F350 that is 20 years old, looks and runs like new.

I don’t care about 20hp on the dyno or more response.

 

[TRD Pro or Die Trying]

I am curious to what you have read here that identified any factual data that says using higher octane in a Toyota 4R will improve long term reliability. I have not seen legitimate proof yet but I may have missed something.

I too plan to keep my vehicle 10-15 years, maybe more. I have a Ford F350 that is 20 years old, looks and runs like new.

I don’t care about 20hp on the dyno or more response.

I hear ya @brumey, and I could be wrong. But what's still sticking in my head is why does Toyota recommend the 91 for the Land Cruiser, but 87 for the 4Runner with basically the same engine set up? I still keep thinking that if you could have a conversation with some of these Toyota engineers and give them some truth serum that they would tell you, "Yes, the 4Runner will run fine with 87 gas, but it's better long term by using the 91 gas." I don't have any factual proof. It's just how I'm feeling today. Note, I was on the other side of the argument a few days ago before this thread. So, in summary, who the hell knows?!? In the end, we'll all do what we think is best. But, I love this 4Runner forum! Some good debates, useful stuff, and cool pictures of everyone's 4Runners and their mods. Can't get enough.

 

[porkyfly]

Saying "91 improves reliability over 87" is completely different from saying "91 improves engine performance over 87".

The 2nd point is obviously true, and that along with marketing is likely the reason why 91 is recommended for the Land Cruiser. Assuming the LC has the same exact tuning and knock detection as the 4runner, using 87 in the LC won't hurt it. The reason for discrepancy in the owner's manual is probably due to marketing, just like how the 100 series land cruiser was allowed 87 but the LX570 "required" 91. Both had the 5.7 NA v8, same engine: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/87-vs-91-octane-lc-vs-lx570.965614/

As far as reliability is concerned, the only way in which higher octane can improve reliability over a lower octane is if knock occurs with the lower octane, but not the higher octane. If the knock sensors are working properly and timing is properly retarded so that 87 results in zero knock, using 87 will not decrease reliability.

I'd assume the only thing to avoid here is switching between 87 and 91 frequently, as some knock may occur during a downgrade as the knock sensor adjusts to the lower octane.

I always take the owner's manual with a grain of salt - it's not necessarily true that Toyota is maliciously trying to "trick" customers to making their vehicles disposable after warranty, rather some of the info in the manual is American EPA mandated bullshit. A good example is foreign manuals allowing heavier oil weights for the exact same engine. Had I followed the American manual for my old Subaru and used 0w20 instead of 5w30/10w40, the engine probably would have grenaded due to oil starvation long ago due to burning off the thinner oil much faster. Always make judgements with sound data instead of blindly following the manual.

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