Switched from Regular to Premium gas. 4Runner runs better (more power & smoother)

[ModernDay4Runner]

Conspiracy theorist believe that Toyota gives recommendations that will lead to their vehicles having mechanical problems so people do not buy their product and their reliability ratings go down, yeah, that is their master plan.

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[HVLA]

Conspiracy theorist believe that Toyota gives recommendations that will lead to their vehicles having mechanical problems so people do not buy their product and their reliability ratings go down, yeah, that is their master plan.

This isnt a conspiracy. It is a known marketing ploy. The average buyer doesnt want to use premium. Requiring premium turns buyers away. The LC engine is the exact same engine. LC and Lexus buyers are "upmarket" and are not turned away by the premium requirement.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

This isnt a conspiracy. It is a known marketing ploy. The average buyer doesnt want to use premium. Requiring premium turns buyers away. The LC engine is the exact same engine. LC and Lexus buyers are "upmarket" and are not turned away by the premium requirement.

This is what I am referring to. He thinks Toyota wants their customers to have engine problems after the warranty expires so they can make money on the repair.

I think that is ridiculous and Toyota would much rather continue to enjoy the high reliability rankings they do enjoy, which helps them sell more vehicles, and allows them to hire and retain the brightest engineers, etc.

To your point about the marketing ploy, didn't someone in this thread mention a difference in compression ratios between the two engines and that explained the different octane recommendation?

 

[Tarekith]

I purchased the vehicle from them and I am trusting that they knew what they were doing when the built the thing, so that works for me.

Normally I’d feel that way too, but they can’t even sort out squealing brakes lately so……

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

Normally I’d feel that way too, but they can’t even sort out squealing brakes lately so……

Ok, maybe the squealing brakes is given them some problems but do you think that is by design and as soon as your warranty expires, they will snare you in their money making trap of making a bad product that must go only to them, only to Toyota for post warranty work (which you don't obviously. Do you think they are tricking you into using gasoline that is going to ruin your engine, but only after the warranty expires, with the hopes you take it to a Toyota dealership for repair at your expense. Of course not, how silly does all that sound.

 

[HVLA]

This is what I am referring to. He thinks Toyota wants their customers to have engine problems after the warranty expires so they can make money on the repair.

I think that is ridiculous and Toyota would much rather continue to enjoy the high reliability rankings they do enjoy, which helps them sell more vehicles, and allows them to hire and retain the brightest engineers, etc.

To your point about the marketing ploy, didn't someone in this thread mention a difference in compression ratios between the two engines and that explained the different octane recommendation?

The compression ratio is the same. They are exactly the same engine. I am not saying there will be catastrophic issues from using regular vs premium. Oil changes matter more.

Toyota knows what they are doing. Requiring premium would be worse on sales than a 4runner getting 200k miles vs 250k miles. Especially considering the vast majority of people dont keep new vehicles that long and generally people who purchase used vehicles are the ones who care more. Toyota doesnt sell used vehicles.

 

[brumey]

Throwing this out as a thought for comment. If the 4R is "tuned" to run on 87. When I say tuned, the ECU, ignition, timing, etc (using old terms). Would that mean that when using 93, the ECU would need to change the timing to deal with the fuel confusion differences?

Equally, if you put 87 in a LC that is "tuned" for 91, it would beed to adjust permanently.

Projecting from that line of thinking, wouldn't it be better to run the 4R on 87 and the LC on 91 so the ECU would not have to adjust from its default?

My guess is that the engine maybe the same but I suspect the tune is not.

Maybe I'll ping that claimed Toyota engineer that has a YouTube channel?

 

[CO/ZA]

Will leave this here:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/

More often than not, using premium in a high compression, turbo charged car will yield overall better performance. However, you are free to use 87 octane to save $7-9 per tank in exchange for lesser power and smoothness.

Those of us living at high altitude have a better argument to use 91 octane, as the 85 octane regular is technically against Toyota's recommendation. 85 octane is a 1960s cheat that has no place in modern engines.

 

[brumey]

I have not seen 85 here in Tennessee. Costco has two flavors available, 87 and 93. 93 is $0.65 a gallon more.

i can see your point on 85 and high altitude with a Turbo engine.

 

[127.0.0.1]

4runner compression at 11 isn't really regarded as a high compression motor

last fillup....been running 91 in the SR5...it does seem to respond to the higher octane
but will I keep putting in 91 or 93 ? no way, it runs great on 87 too

 

[CO/ZA]

I have not seen 85 here in Tennessee. Costco has two flavors available, 87 and 93. 93 is $0.65 a gallon more.

i can see your point on 85 and high altitude with a Turbo engine.

Right, you only see 85 octane in the Mountain West.

My 4runner lives at 6000ft elevation, for example.

Some manufacturers like Ford will deny engine warranty claims if you run 85 octane on their twin turbo engines.

 

[Nodak]

I have not seen 85 here in Tennessee. Costco has two flavors available, 87 and 93. 93 is $0.65 a gallon more.

i can see your point on 85 and high altitude with a Turbo engine.

85 is mostly for high altitude environments, 85 is equivalent to 87 at high altitudes. mostly see this in colorado

you can in a nutshell add 2 pts to 85, 87, 89, 91 at high altitudes to get a rough conversion to sea level ratings.

 

[MikeUtah]

85 is mostly for high altitude environments, 85 is equivalent to 87 at high altitudes. mostly see this in colorado

you can in a nutshell add 2 pts to 85, 87, 89, 91 at high altitudes to get a rough conversion to sea level ratings.

Naturally aspirated engines, which rely on atmospheric pressure to draw air into the cylinders, are significantly affected by altitude. With reduced air density at higher altitudes, a lower Octane level can be used.

This same general statement cannot be made with modern turbo engines.

A turbocharger forces more air into the engine cylinders by compressing the thinner air, effectively making it "thicker" or simply forcing more air into the cylinders, somewhat compensating for the lower air density.

Thus, with modern turbo engines, using 85 Octane at a high altitude, is not recommended.

Thinking of using 85 Octane at altitude, with a turbo engine – Watch this video first!

"Never Use This Gas In Your Car!"

 

[Nodak]

well luckily i dont have this issue like most of the country, i only get 87, 89 and 91 (no eth)

and my long trip to GA from ND, i only have 2 mountain hill to worry about (rocky hill area and cartersville area) crossing from chattanooga to atlanta driving down i-75

 

[Lamuncha]

As written earlier, the available energy in an equal volume of 87 octane vs 93 octane is pretty much the same. So you cannot get more power out of higher octane fuel.
The 2.4 L Toyota engine is similar to the 2.4 L Lexus but the Lexus is tuned differently. Yes the static compression ratios are the same. The dynamic compression ratios are different. Higher in the Lexus. They accomplish this through valve or cam timing changes. By closing the intake valves earlier in the piston stroke the engine captures more air/fuel in the compression chamber which will produce more power.
Cam (valve) timing can be adjusted in newer engines.
Before adjustable valve timing the cam had to be changed.
With greater pressures in the compression chamber the engine risks detonation before the optimal point.
Higher octane fuel prevents pre detonation.

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