Nightmare at 10,000 miles on TRD ORP Hybrid?

[odins_beer'd]

These aren’t hybrids for these sake of saving money at the pump, as is well known. These are hybrids as power adders. You’re taking ONE person’s issues and extrapolating them to be far more than is factual, as this powertrain has been used for years without systemic issues.

These aren’t hybrids for these sake of saving money at the pump, as is well known. These are hybrids as power adders. You’re taking ONE person’s issues and extrapolating them to be far more than is factual, as this powertrain has been used for years without systemic issues.

I don’t disagree that Toyota is using the hybrid system primarily as a power adder rather than a fuel-savings play, it's more a byproduct. My point isn’t that these systems are guaranteed to fail or that Toyota doesn’t know how to build reliable drivetrains... their track record obviously speaks for itself.

The concern is simply that hybrids, by definition, add layers of complexity: additional drivetrain components, high-voltage systems, more software integration, thermal management, and long-term battery degradation that a traditional ICE platform just doesn’t have. Even if each individual system is well engineered, more systems means more potential failure points over a 10–15 year ownership horizon.

Also, the i-FORCE hybrid powertrain being (Tacoma, Tundra, LC250, GX550) is still relatively new in real-world off-road and long-term use. A year or two of data without systemic issues is encouraging, but it’s not the same as having a decade of high mileage, high abuse history. Which is what vehicles like the 4Runner have traditionally been known for.

This isn’t about extrapolating one person’s failure, or saying hybrids are inherently bad. It’s just a reasonable skepticism about long-term durability versus proven simplicity, especially for people who buy 4Runners specifically to keep them for a very long time.

At the same time, it doesn’t even appear that this individual’s issue was drivetrain-related, so I apologize for hijacking the thread. That said, I won’t apologize for raising legitimate potential concerns rather than sticking my head in the sand and assuming everything will be fine simply because it’s a Toyota.

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[sstarrx2]

I don’t disagree that Toyota is using the hybrid system primarily as a power adder rather than a fuel-savings play, it's more a byproduct. My point isn’t that these systems are guaranteed to fail or that Toyota doesn’t know how to build reliable drivetrains... their track record obviously speaks for itself.

The concern is simply that hybrids, by definition, add layers of complexity: additional drivetrain components, high-voltage systems, more software integration, thermal management, and long-term battery degradation that a traditional ICE platform just doesn’t have. Even if each individual system is well engineered, more systems means more potential failure points over a 10–15 year ownership horizon.

Also, the i-FORCE hybrid powertrain being (Tacoma, Tundra, LC250, GX550) is still relatively new in real-world off-road and long-term use. A year or two of data without systemic issues is encouraging, but it’s not the same as having a decade of high mileage, high abuse history. Which is what vehicles like the 4Runner have traditionally been known for.

This isn’t about extrapolating one person’s failure, or saying hybrids are inherently bad. It’s just a reasonable skepticism about long-term durability versus proven simplicity, especially for people who buy 4Runners specifically to keep them for a very long time.

At the same time, it doesn’t even appear that this individual’s issue was drivetrain-related, so I apologize for hijacking the thread. That said, I won’t apologize for raising legitimate potential concerns rather than sticking my head in the sand and assuming everything will be fine simply because it’s a Toyota.

I get your point...it is valid...but at the same time...if we buy new vehicles they are always going to be more complex than what came before them...that is progress. If these systems caused 12v battery degradation issues in general..I think we would have been hearing about it by now too...this is the first one...bad luck or there is something going on with that dash cam!

 

[odins_beer'd]

I get your point...it is valid...but at the same time...if we buy new vehicles they are always going to be more complex than what came before them...that is progress. If these systems caused 12v battery degradation issues in general..I think we would have been hearing about it by now too...this is the first one...bad luck or there is something going on with that dash cam!

Haha, yes, that is certainly true. Progress is good. I was between a used 5G and new 6G so that is probably where my strong stance is coming from. That and I just enjoy playing devils advocate, makes for good conversation. Thanks

 

[4Runner4Fun]

Well if we're playing devil's advocate, the EV boost takes some pressure off the turbo gas engine when initially accelerating. Wouldn't it be interesting if the hybrid powertrain ends up lasting longer than the gas-only version because of lower long-term stress? Clearly there was a strong assumption here that the hybrid was potentially the problem which is not the case at all. It just reveals a strong personal bias. Remember that today's vehicles are much more complex than old vehicles and yet they last significantly longer on average due to the many improvements that added more reliability than the "complexity" took away.

I personally will go by the data and so far both the turbo 4 and hybrid versions are holding up really well in the real world. I believe Toyota has done what they always do and overbuilt (and under-tuned) the new 4Runners for long-term reliability despite some required extra complexity to bring it to modern performance. They will take. huge business hit if all their new hybrid trucks fail early when people use them as trucks and they know it. So far, the big problem is the non-hybrid V6 that appears due to a flawed manufacturing process. In the end I'm not worried and am confident these 4Runner powertrains will last the life of the vehicle with proper maintenance but if I need to replace the hybrid battery for a few grand after 15 years, I won't be too upset. I'm enjoying it a lot right now.

 

[Underground25]

Well if we're playing devil's advocate, the EV boost takes some pressure off the turbo gas engine when initially accelerating. Wouldn't it be interesting if the hybrid powertrain ends up lasting longer than the gas-only version because of lower long-term stress? Clearly there was a strong assumption here that the hybrid was potentially the problem which is not the case at all. It just reveals a strong personal bias. Remember that today's vehicles are much more complex than old vehicles and yet they last significantly longer on average due to the many improvements that added more reliability than the "complexity" took away.

I personally will go by the data and so far both the turbo 4 and hybrid versions are holding up really well in the real world. I believe Toyota has done what they always do and overbuilt (and under-tuned) the new 4Runners for long-term reliability despite some required extra complexity to bring it to modern performance. They will take. huge business hit if all their new hybrid trucks fail early when people use them as trucks and they know it. So far, the big problem is the non-hybrid V6 that appears due to a flawed manufacturing process. In the end I'm not worried and am confident these 4Runner powertrains will last the life of the vehicle with proper maintenance but if I need to replace the hybrid battery for a few grand after 15 years, I won't be too upset. I'm enjoying it a lot right now.

Preach it. More complexity does seem to bring more possible issues, but technology continues to march on and mitigate that additional complexity in many cases. And yep, that Tundra issue was based in manufacturing flaws, not design flaws.

 

[Nodak]

this is me just spit balling.....

but i think its the general 4runner customer that asked for something more than what the 5th gen gave. yes people adored the v6 for durability, but in the general consensus, that engine was just a old age dog with arthritis that couldnt get out of its own way with how underpowered it was.

this new platform/engine combo resolved this issue but also made it so toyota could consolidate the various unique engines/platforms into 1 global cost saving platform vs the taco and 4runner having different engines/frames along with the sequoia and tundra being so different but different than what lexus offered.

dropping the toyota land cruiser (traditional full size) platform out of the usa market help boost the lexus equivlent models to fill that gap since the toyota land cruiser was such a loss leader on sales under toyota (i think the last year 2021 they sold it only had ~1500 units sold)

i personally like the new engine either gas or hybrid, it makes the #1 issue the 5th gen had resolved.

what i dont like is some the fat trimming toyota did to NOT appease the 10-20% of stout supporters of the off roading community. the bean counters went with the 70% that will never take it off road and thus trimmed those things that we would never miss anyway (and yes i am one those that dont care if they dont have bump stops. i will never be able to use that function for what i intend to use my 4runner for, and that mirrors the majority of customers buying the 4runner today)

i mean i see more mom/older women buying the 5th gen than i did guys and for those off roading when i was driving my 2014 4runner limited.

hell at one point my sub division, the doctor next door bought a sr5, then the wife around the corner bought a trd off road, and then a new older wife bought a limited in the same classic silver i had. so in total of the 4 x 4runners, 3 where women and i was the only male.

eventually the trd off road gal swapped her 4runner to a trd pro tundra solar octane right after we got our 23 tundra platinum.

ultimately the engine is the biggest issue on the 5th gen, not at first but being in production since 2009 makes for a engine that was surpassed by newer better engines by the competitors and within toyota's own line up after about 2018. having 2 mid cycle refreshes didnt help the 5th gen either (2014 and 2019 had a tss upgrade and 2021 had the last major refresh).

going on for 15 yrs on a generation really hurt it long term wise but helped in durability and quality that couldnt be matched by anything else except maybe the corolla's and the 22RE 4runner.

with all the new advances and what not, the general buying public wants the toys/gadgets/tech and more hp that most old timers would prefer the simplicity of old tech.

but as like everything else, the oems have to cater to the bigger buying public (that dont care about the losses that the old 4runner had standard), not the so called 1%'s that lurk in the forums and tout all the adventures they do in there modded (how little or a lot) out 4runners

 

[CO/ZA]

Preach it. More complexity does seem to bring more possible issues, but technology continues to march on and mitigate that additional complexity in many cases. And yep, that Tundra issue was based in manufacturing flaws, not design flaws.

I don't believe this is the case, at least based on the evidence in this video of a tear down:



There rather appears to be a design flaw possibly relating to the oiling of the main bearings and crankshaft.

There is a chance there is a machining problem related to the journals on the crankshaft, but since it affects multiple plants (Japan and Alabama) it's hard to say so.

 

[Underground25]

I don't believe this is the case, at least based on the evidence in this video of a tear down:



There rather appears to be a design flaw possibly relating to the oiling of the main bearings and crankshaft.

There is a chance there is a machining problem related to the journals on the crankshaft, but since it affects multiple plants (Japan and Alabama) it's hard to say so.

Okay friend. The 6G sucks, it’s too complex, the Tundra issues are design flaws, etc.

 

[CO/ZA]

Okay friend. The 6G sucks, it’s too complex, the Tundra issues are design flaws, etc.

6th gen is great, but Toyota did drop the ball on the 3.4 V6.

Cannot imagine driving a 5th gen 4R here in CO, those guys are always clogging the mountain pass roads in their slow runner.

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