Sufficient Power In the 2025 Gas Motor?

[CO/ZA]

Idling at a stop light burns gas so negatively impacts mileage. Even better for the hybrid, turning the engine off going downhill doesn't incur engine drag so is even better than putting the transmission in neutral (no engine drag plus no fuel burn).

Coasting in neutral actually uses fuel.

Coasting in D means the fuel supply is cut off and the engine is turning from the engine braking/trans; what you're hearing is the air moving through the engine.

Coasting in N means the car will supply fuel to the engine to keep it running, aka idling.

A hybrid is coasting in gear as well as using the induction motors to recharge the system.

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[jimr]

Coasting in neutral actually uses fuel.

Coasting in D means the fuel supply is cut off and the engine is turning from the engine braking/trans; what you're hearing is the air moving through the engine.

Coasting in N means the car will supply fuel to the engine to keep it running, aka idling.

A hybrid is coasting in gear as well as using the induction motors to recharge the system.

You could be more clear by identifying which of your statements refer to gas-only vehicle vs. which refer to hybrid. And I have no idea what you mean by "what you're hearing is the air moving through the engine". Yes I assumed when my hybrid "turns the engine off" and reported rpms go to zero that the crankshaft isn't turning and engine braking is zero. Perhaps this assumption is wrong?

 

[CO/ZA]

You could be more clear by identifying which of your statements refer to gas-only vehicle vs. which refer to hybrid. And I have no idea what you mean by "what you're hearing is the air moving through the engine". Yes I assumed when my hybrid "turns the engine off" and reported rpms go to zero that the crankshaft isn't turning and engine braking is zero. Perhaps this assumption is wrong?

Have not driven the hybrid 4R, but if it's anything like our Honda hybrid the engine is running when traveling over 20mph.

I'm speaking more generally on gas engine cars, apologies for the confusion.

Hybrids "engine brake" by "battery braking", using induction to charge the battery whereby slowing the vehicle as well.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

Anyone who buys a 4Runner and is sweating a few MPGs should've bought a different vehicle., IMO.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

Your response is kind of snarky for a supposedly friendly forum, man. Anyway, there are way more reasons to go for the hybrid than just MPG. Of course, added range and longer between fillups is one. Also 2400 watt power receptacle as opposed to 400 for the gas-only. Regenerative braking to save on brake leather wear (I live in the mountains). Tremendous added torque for occasional trailer pulling. Not sure if the gas-only automatically turns off the engine at stop lights, but starting up on electric and only engaging the gas engine after you're rolling helps smooth things out. Probably other reasons too, but you get the idea. The extra $2K for hybrid was well worth it.

I wasn't intending to sound snarky, please don't be so sensitive. My point was really about how much MPG improvement is realized by the vehicle shutting down the gas motor while at a stop sign. Then the discussion went into coasting in neutral or coasting in D, etc. I know this thread is about "power," and not so much about MPG, so again, how much difference in MPG is all this stuff really and if that difference is significant to anyone, than maybe a 4Runner wasn't the right choice of vehicle.

 

[jimr]

Note to readers: I've deleted my recent responses to ModernDay4Runner in this thread. I found myself getting snarky in response to his snark. Both have no place in a friendly forum. Apologies.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

Note to readers: I've deleted my recent responses to ModernDay4Runner in this thread. I found myself getting snarky in response to his snark. Both have no place in a friendly forum. Apologies.

All good, no worries jimr.

 

[jaymay82]

Hi everyone. Quick question regarding the new 4cyl gas motor for those who are running it now. At highway speeds do you find it sufficient for get up and go as well as passing. We’re ready to order but I keep waffling between gas and hybrid? Want a simple engine I can do all my own work on hence leaning toward straight gas. Thanks for the input!

Way better on the low-end than my 2nd gen Tacoma and 5th Gen 4Runner.

 

[bakutheleo]

@CO/ZA Honda and Toyota use different algorithms in their hybrids, at least in the past. Of course this stuff is always changing. However, the 6G 4Runner most definitely can run electric at freeway speeds, albeit only when very minimal power is needed (like maintaining speed with a slight boost on level or slightly downhill). If you accelerate veeeeeery slowly (keep the electric boost less than half on the display) I think it will maintain electric only forever (well, until the battery level is low enough where it needs to be charged). Downhill it most certainly cuts off the engine most of the time.

 

[jimr]

@CO/ZA Honda and Toyota use different algorithms in their hybrids, at least in the past. Of course this stuff is always changing. However, the 6G 4Runner most definitely can run electric at freeway speeds, albeit only when very minimal power is needed (like maintaining speed with a slight boost on level or slightly downhill). If you accelerate veeeeeery slowly (keep the electric boost less than half on the display) I think it will maintain electric only forever (well, until the battery level is low enough where it needs to be charged). Downhill it most certainly cuts off the engine most of the time.

Absolutely agree with all of this. My experience has been identical. Just wish the battery was maybe twice as big, and the electric motor twice as strong. But of course that would impact both weight and cost.

 

[Nodak]

you hyper-milers kill me ?

technically if the engine is on in the non HV, its using gas. whether its in gear or in neutral

usually you burn the most gas getting to speed so the HV model saves a minimal amount from a standstill. since the HV is doing the grunt work of getting you going from a standstill up to about 18 mph and then the gas engine starts up.

idle time at a stop light is rarely burning thru much gas unless you have like 5 min light rotations, but in my small 50k town light rotations are like 2 mins outside of school/business times and go to lane camera rotations depending on lane vehicle set points.

once you are at speed, you burn little gas to maintain speed (unless you are doing like 75+ and trying to get a brick thru the air)

and biggest part of start/stop is for the corporate cafe avg, its not for the benefit of consumers mostly.

 

[AR1978]

Yes! The performance with the gas engine is great! I’ve also been looking at getting the cold air intake from SXTH Element and OTT tune which will bring the HP and torque up considerably. As it stands with those modifications, you will see over 330 hp and 400+ lb/ft of torque.

So getting to 400+ lb/ft of torque is that possible on the non hybrid?

So I have a 5th gen with a tune and cold air intake. The cold air intake ads hp and torque and so did the tune (VRTuned) but from what I know the gains are not added on top of each other. For what it's worth though the tune and cold air intake on my 5th gen 4Runner made it run a lot nicer though.

 

[Nodak]

yeah i am not sure you can boost the 317 ft-lbs to over 400, i mean thats a lot of ground to cover vs cost of mods to get over 400 for the non HV model.

forgot to add, numbers on a test bench dont always cross over to 1 to 1 once you factor in drivetrain loss

and yeah once you do any of the below, you will void your warranty in a heartbeat.

also no dealer will touch your vehicle to service after that, except anything not related to the engine

Larger Turbocharger: A larger turbocharger can provide more airflow, leading to increased power and torque, especially at higher RPMs.

Turbocharger Modifications: Upgrading the wastegate, blow-off valve, or intercooler can improve turbo response and efficiency.

High-Flow Air Intake: A high-flow air intake allows more air to reach the turbocharger, maximizing its potential.

Exhaust System Upgrade: A free-flowing exhaust system, including a downpipe and cat-back exhaust, allows exhaust gases to escape more efficiently, improving turbo performance.

ECU Tuning: Engine control unit (ECU) tuning can optimize fuel delivery, boost pressure, and ignition timing to maximize power and torque.

Fuel Injectors: Upgrading to high-flow fuel injectors ensures the engine receives the necessary fuel to match the increased airflow from the turbocharger.

Throttle Body: A larger throttle body can increase airflow into the engine, especially when combined with other performance upgrades.


Weight Reduction: Reducing the vehicle's weight can improve acceleration and overall performance, making the most of the increased torque.

High-Quality Fuel: Using high-quality fuel and additives can improve combustion efficiency and engine performance.

Intercooler Upgrade: An upgraded intercooler can help cool the compressed air from the turbocharger, increasing its density and allowing for more power.

Nitrous Oxide: Nitrous oxide systems can provide a short burst of extra power and torque, especially useful for quick acceleration.

Engine Tuning (ECU Remapping/Flashing):

• This involves adjusting the Engine Control Unit (ECU) settings to optimize fuel delivery, ignition timing, and boost pressure.
• A professional tuner can fine-tune the engine to maximize torque and power output without major physical modifications.
• This can unlock hidden torque and add a significant amount (20-30 lb-ft) in some cases.
• Cost: Tuning kits typically range from $500 to $2000.

2. Increasing Boost Pressure:

• Since your engine is already turbocharged, increasing the boost pressure is a direct way to force more air into the engine, which allows for more fuel combustion and, therefore, more torque.
• This can be done by adjusting the wastegate or with a boost controller.
• Important Considerations:
  • Ensure your engine components (pistons, rods, crank, etc.) are strong enough to handle the increased stress.
  • The fuel system needs to be able to supply enough fuel for the increased air intake. Upgraded injectors might be necessary.
  • Detonation (engine knocking) can occur at higher boost levels, especially on pump gas. Direct injection engines generally handle higher boost better.

3. Optimizing Airflow:

• Cold Air Intake: A cold air intake kit allows the engine to draw in colder, denser air, which contains more oxygen for better combustion and increased torque.
• Upgraded Exhaust System: A less restrictive exhaust system allows exhaust gases to exit more efficiently, improving engine breathing and performance.
• Upgraded Intercooler: An intercooler cools the compressed air from the turbo, making it denser and allowing for more efficient combustion.

4. Other Potential Upgrades (More Involved):

• Camshaft Upgrade: Upgrading the camshaft can improve airflow and valve timing, potentially leading to more torque.
• Upgraded Fuel Injectors: Larger injectors are often needed to provide sufficient fuel for increased airflow from a higher-boost turbo.
• Larger Throttle Body: A larger throttle body can improve airflow, but it needs to be accompanied by proper tuning.

Important Notes:

• Safety and Reliability: Increasing torque can put significant stress on your engine. It's crucial to ensure supporting modifications are made, and tuning is performed correctly to avoid damage.
• Engine Type Matters: The ease and effectiveness of modifications can depend on the specific engine and car model.
• Professional Help: For significant torque increases, especially those involving increased boost, it's highly recommended to consult a professional tuner to ensure the modifications are performed safely and effectively.

In summary, increasing torque from 317 ft-lbs to over 400 ft-lbs on a turbo engine is achievable, but it likely requires a combination of strategies, including ECU tuning, increased boost pressure, and airflow optimization. The extent of modifications and complexity will depend on your specific engine and performance goals.

 

[Mad Ghost]

Hi everyone. Quick question regarding the new 4cyl gas motor for those who are running it now. At highway speeds do you find it sufficient for get up and go as well as passing. We’re ready to order but I keep waffling between gas and hybrid? Want a simple engine I can do all my own work on hence leaning toward straight gas. Thanks for the input!

I just passed 7K mile mark and recently completed a 5k mile road trip with a family of 4, cargo box on the roof and a hitch with cooler and camping gear. The Non hybrid has enough power. Never felt like I couldn't get out of someone's way when getting up to speed. It will do the 1/4 mile in 15.3 which is how fast sports cars in the 90's were. I passed many a car or slow RV in the passing zones without issue.

 

[CO/ZA]

As an aside I'm doing 20.5mpg total average on 91 octane here in CO.

~1350mi on the vehicle, and this includes a trip up to RMNP and some off roading in the Ironclads.

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