5W-30 for hot climates? 0W-20 for cold climates?

[drNick]

I haven’t seen anywhere proof about what you are saying. Toyota is selling the 4Runner in North America, and recommends the use of 0W20 oil. In the user manual they state 5W20 is acceptable too. If this engine is being used in different models and sold elsewhere, with different tuning or specifications it is possible to be able to use a higher viscosity oil. As I noted modern motor oil is not used for lubrication alone. The 2.4 turbo I4 is an engine with low tolerances and is naturally more demanding in comparison to the Toyota’s naturally aspirated engines of the past.

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[6thGen1419]

I haven’t seen anywhere proof about what you are saying. Toyota is selling the 4Runner in North America, and recommends the use of 0W20 oil. In the user manual they state 5W20 is acceptable too. If this engine is being used in different models and sold elsewhere, with different tuning or specifications it is possible to be able to use a higher viscosity oil. As I noted modern motor oil is not used for lubrication alone. The 2.4 turbo I4 is an engine with low tolerances and is naturally more demanding in comparison to the Toyota’s naturally aspirated engines of the past.

I got this from Grok:

https://x.com/i/grok/share/dKfIWYp8nQ3B8GSHnLbrunhDW

 

[drNick]

Thank you for helping me prove my point. Although Grok is no Toyota, the fore mentioned information sheds a light on two important facts. First 5W30 is acceptable only in Europe and Australia, and second the 4 Runner is sold in North America only and with its 2.4 turbo engine. The Land Cruiser Prado sold in Europe and Australia is offered there with the 2.8 Turbo Diesel instead, which is a completely different drivetrain and out of the scope of this conversation.
I don’t claim to be a Toyota expert but I read and value the opinions of experts and trust the manufacturers recommendations. Grok, Chat GPT or any search engine/AI source just summarize and provide information from multiple sources. They don’t pay engine repair bills.

 

[6thGen1419]

Thank you for helping me prove my point. Although Grok is no Toyota, the fore mentioned information sheds a light on two important facts. First 5W30 is acceptable only in Europe and Australia, and second the 4 Runner is sold in North America only and with its 2.4 turbo engine. The Land Cruiser Prado sold in Europe and Australia is offered there with the 2.8 Turbo Diesel instead, which is a completely different drivetrain and out of the scope of this conversation.
I don’t claim to be a Toyota expert but I read and value the opinions of experts and trust the manufacturers recommendations. Grok, Chat GPT or any search engine/AI source just summarize and provide information from multiple sources. They don’t pay engine repair bills.

You've convinced me to stick with 0w-20. Thanks.

 

[Nodak]

in the usa toyota uses 0w-20 (and i suspect this is mostly driven by mpg/emission requirements) vs the world where they use 5w-30.

i pulled a page from the england toyota lander cruiser 250 owers manual

 

[drNick]

it looks like this manual is for a different engine. The oil fill is 7.7 quarts! The Toyota 2.4 Turbo 4 in the 4Runner and North American 250 Land Cruiser takes 5.9 quarts of oil. Different engine, different oil specifications...

 

[Nodak]

it looks like this manual is for a different engine. The oil fill is 7.7 quarts! The Toyota 2.4 Turbo 4 in the 4Runner and North American 250 Land Cruiser takes 5.9 quarts of oil. Different engine, different oil specifications...

sorry that was the diesel engine specs page


otherwise its 0w-20 or 5w-30, same as usa specs and conditions when you use 5w-30 instead of 0w-20

 

[quadna71]

But Toyota does recommend 5w-30, just not in the US?

Can you link the YouTube video you mentioned at the start of the thread?

 

[Dog4Runner]

If you use 0w-20 you need to change to oil every 3,000 - 5,000 miles max. 0w-20 is known to create a dirty system. As others have said 0w-20 is a USA compliance thing, not whats best for your engine.

 

[alldogsoffroad]

The T24A-FTS 2.4T engine which is also used in international markets does call for different oil viscosities. If you take a look at the UK owners manual for a 2024 Toyota Highlander with the same engine as the US market Tacoma and 4Runner you will see a different viscosity recommendation based on operating temps.

North American oil viscosities are what they are currently as a result of CAFE standards and fines levied on OEM's if they do not hit a specific target. I run 5w30, then engine is noticeably smoother than with 0w20.

Copypasta below, taken from https://www.toyota.co.uk/customer/manuals

------------------------------------------------------------


2024 Highlander - Owners Manual

Lubrication system
Oil capacity (Drain and refill—reference*)

With filter	5.3 L (5.6 qt., 4.7 Imp. qt.)
Without filter	5.0 L (5.3 qt., 4.4 Imp. qt.)

*The engine oil capacity is a reference quantity to be used when changing the engine oil. When actually adding the engine oil, make sure that the oil level is between the low level mark and refill upper limit mark. Warm up and turn off the engine, wait about 5 minutes, and check the oil level on the dipstick.
Engine oil selection
“Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use Toyota approved “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity.

Oil grade:

0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30:

API grade SL “Energy-Conserving”, SM “Energy-Conserving”, SN “Resource-Conserving”, SN PLUS “Resource-Conserving” or SP “Resource-Conserving”; or ILSAC GF-6A multigrade engine oil

Recommended viscosity (SAE):

1. Temperature range anticipated before next oil change
2. Preferred

SAE 0W-20 is filled into your Toyota vehicle at manufacturing, and the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

If you use SAE 10W-30 or a higher viscosity engine oil in extremely low temperatures, the engine may become difficult to start, so SAE 0W-20, 5W-20 or 5W-30 engine oil is recommended.

Oil viscosity (0W-20 is explained here as an example):

• The 0W in 0W-20 indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.
• The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

How to read oil container labels:

Either or both API registered marks are added to some oil containers to help you select the oil you should use.

1. API Service Symbol
   
   Top portion: “API SERVICE SP” means the oil quality designation by American Petroleum Institute (API).
   
   Center portion: “SAE 0W-20” means the SAE viscosity grade.
   
   Lower portion: “Resource-Conserving” means that the oil has fuel-saving and environmental protection capabilities.
2. ILSAC Certification Mark
   
   The International Lubricant Specification Advisory Committee (ILSAC) Certification Mark is displayed on the front of the container.

 

[bkw777]

This comes up on every vehicle forum. I always run the factory recommended weight because that's what the manufacturer uses to prove out the design (durability testing). The parts that rely on hydrodynamic lubrication like your main bearings don't give a **** about the weight since the crankshaft rides on an oil film and parts never touch. Parts like your piston wrist pins that rely on oil shooting up the middle of the connecting rod will get more lubrication with lighter oil. Many engines cool their pistons with oil jets where lighter oil is better. Start-up lube better with lighter oil. All clearances designed for 0/20. Lower engine friction makes an engine run cooler. People live to second guess the manufacturer and claim benefits that engineers might have trouble measuring in test cells. Running a slightly different weight like 0/30 or 5/30 almost certainly won't hurt because engines just aren't that sensitive to small changes or there would be lots of lubrication issues (when in reality you've probably never experienced or heard of a lubrication fsilure). I'm a former powertrain engineer and I use the weight shown on the filler cap in all my vehicles, I'll run 0W/8 when that's the manufacturer spec. and if I shop for a used vehicle I'm not looking for owners that like to second guess the manufacturer.

This is beyond ridiculous. Manufacturers fuck up all day every day. They also have different priorities than their customers, and that shows all day every day. There has been a countless stream of examples from every company including the holy Toyota since the first car 100 years ago.

If it's stupid to blindly ignore manufacturers documentation and engineers, it's just as stupid to blindly worship them.

Not to mention, even if you want to blindly follow what the manufacturer says, in this case the manufacturer says like 4 different things at the same time. Which gospel is the actual gospel?
In the US, us 0-20, in anywhere else, same latitude and weather, same engine, same parts, same dimensions, same air, same gravity, same Earth, use 5-30.
Toyota care: first oil change at 10k.
Toyota computer and owners manual: first oil changeat 5k

And trying to claim that 0w20 is actually *better* at protecting and results in less wear is completely and utterly at odds with a mountain of evidense for all kinds of manufacturers. The best they have shown is that you can *get away* with it if everything else is just perfect, totally ideal lab conditions. In no way is it ever actually *better*. It's a compromise that you can get away with by dint of making the oil more and more exotic and expensive, and just changing the manual to say to change it 3x as often so it's always brand new. Same as adding the turbo. Sure, if everything is perfect and you change the oil every 18 minutes the turbo might last almost 1/2 as long as all those 300k 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th gens.

There has even already been cases where the manufacturer had to update their docs to say to use thicker oil than they said initially because too many engines either failed totally or suffered too much wear too fast. Hello the huge GM recall still ongoing just for the most obvious example.
If it was so superior, why did going thicker fix it? Surely they should have gone from 0w20 to 0W8 to fix it?

Tho only reason anyone is using 0-anything is not because it's actually better, it's simply because they are squeezed and trying to improve fuel and pollution numbers any way they possibly can, and they sacrifice other numbers to make those numbers better.

 

[Nodak]

actually the first reminder at 5k miles (and every 5k miles, reminder comes on 500 miles before the actual reminder) is actually for the tire rotation, not the oil change in the usa.

its stated in the maintenance manual at the 5k matrix/paragraph

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