5W-30 for hot climates? 0W-20 for cold climates?

[Dr_Al]

It is absolutely not likely that they manufacture the same engine in the same factory to different clearances based on where the final vehicle is bound.

4Runners and Tacomas sold in Mexico allow for 0W-20 to 10W-40 with no language about switching back to 0W-20 after a single oil change. The regions that have that recommendation are those with tighter fuel efficiency and emissions regulations; that is not a coincidence. Everyone can and should run whatever they want to after doing their own research; I’m personally not in the business of telling people what they “should” do.

Easy choice to just run 0W-20 if you’re the type that is afraid of “issues with the warranty.” However, Toyota would have to prove a causal relationship between running a higher weight oil (that they specify for the same engine in other countries) and the specific failure. I can’t find an example anywhere online of anyone ever being denied warranty from running out-of-weight-spec oil on a modern vehicle of any make.

Personally I’m running VRP5W30 in my 4Runner after break-in.

Just because you think something is true doesn't make it so. Back in 89 a friend had a Toyota pickup that always made a knocking noise. At first the local dealer dismissed it but when he had about 30k on it the noise was loud enough so even they couldn't deny it. So they tore the engine apart before the 36k warranty ran out. It sat waiting for parts for 3 weeks. It turned out even back then Toyota would use different thickness main and rod bearings to get the exact clearance they wanted.

I laugh at the people who say "I live in Florida so I need a thicker oil". Do you not get it? Outdoor temp matters when it's -40 out and you are starting your engine. Once it's up to temp they operate at the same temperature no matter where you live. They have these things called radiators. Get too cold and the thermostat closes to keep the engine warmer. If they get too hot they boil over. Your oil temp is directly tied to your antifreeze temp. Google it.

Is 5w30 going to harm an engine, probably very little. Would I use it? If I couldn't get 0w20 sure. But the only reason for intentionally switching would be based on winter temps. It's the first number that matters. That's the temp when you want oil to get to all the parts in your motor as quickly as possible when it's very cold out. But it's a free world and you know better than the people with engineering degrees who designed it. Use what you want. Chances are you will sell your Toyota long before any problems arise.

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[CO/ZA]

What is this based upon? When I worked in an engine plant it would have been trivially easy to adjust main bearing clearances and piston to bore clearances and connecting rod bearing clearances for a batch of engines headed for a specific region.

What's not likely is any oil weught other than factory-specified to have anywhere near the level of durability testing; the recommended oil is most proven by far. Other weights might be better but that's guesswork and you have a hell of a lot more to think about than climate. Oil jets cool the underside of your pistons. Cylinder walls and piston rings rely on splash lubrication. Your variable valve timing mechanism uses oil. Heavier oil causes friction and heat. There are plenty of theoretical negatives.

As far as south florida...yawn. Hot weather durability is done with factory specified oil in southern Arizona where it actually gets hot.

Why would Toyota incur the extra assembly cost of introducing NA-only spec engines on several production lines?

If a Mexican Tacoma can already use 0w-20 through 10w-30, why bother making a US only model that can only use 0w-20?

I'm sorry, but I feel like you're speculating up the wrong tree.

The simplest answer is literally just CAFE laws means Toyota is teasing out .1-.3 mpg more by using 0w-8/12/20 in its engines.

People seem to have no issues with GL5 75w-85 vs 90 weight oil, yet Toyota is specific about using -85 for the efficiency purposes.

 

[SouthCoast]

Why would Toyota incur the extra assembly cost of introducing NA-only spec engines on several production lines?

If a Mexican Tacoma can already use 0w-20 through 10w-30, why bother making a US only model that can only use 0w-20?

I'm sorry, but I feel like you're speculating up the wrong tree.

The simplest answer is literally just CAFE laws means Toyota is teasing out .1-.3 mpg more by using 0w-8/12/20 in its engines.

People seem to have no issues with GL5 75w-85 vs 90 weight oil, yet Toyota is specific about using -85 for the efficiency purposes.

Correct. This is the ONLY reason the US manual lists a single viscosity. They are restricted legally to list the viscosity used for testing, and nothing else. The people who rely solely on the manual as a "must never deviate from" rule, have probably never heard of tolerances... You're not wrong for following the manual. You're also not wrong for seeking alternatives that best fit your personal use case. If your location is unlikely to get colder than -22F, you're probably not going to notice any difference in cold flow by using a 5w over a 0w... Personally, I already switched to 5w30 and it's been a noticeable difference. I only do 3k OCI's so I can drop the UOA after another 2400 miles.

 

[NotApplicable]

When I worked in an engine plant it would have been trivially easy to adjust main bearing clearances and piston to bore clearances and connecting rod bearing clearances for a batch of engines headed for a specific region.

Without even debating the likelihood that Toyota would manufacture the T24A-FTS with different clearance specs for different regions...

Walk me through the mystical logic that explains specifying different clearances for the same engine in 2 regions whose viscosity recommendations intersect/one region's is a strict superset of the other. Both allow for 2 viscosities, while 1 regions also allows for an additional 2. Are you saying logic would have Toyota manufacturing the Mexico-bound engine with looser clearances? But using your own thought process, wouldn't that be bad for the thinner viscosities (and yet, those are still recommended as well)? Sounds like Mexico gets the magical clearance specs that play well with not only the US-specified viscosities but also others! Crazy.

"But... but... the oil pump tuning might be different!"

Yeah, again... Toyota decides to give Mexico an intelligent pump that can manage handling 4 different viscosities, but the one in the US is much dumber/can only function properly with half of those.

This is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Gumpus]

Why would Toyota incur the extra assembly cost of introducing NA-only spec engines on several production lines?

If a Mexican Tacoma can already use 0w-20 through 10w-30, why bother making a US only model that can only use 0w-20?

I'm sorry, but I feel like you're speculating up the wrong tree.

The simplest answer is literally just CAFE laws means Toyota is teasing out .1-.3 mpg more by using 0w-8/12/20 in its engines.

People seem to have no issues with GL5 75w-85 vs 90 weight oil, yet Toyota is specific about using -85 for the efficiency purposes.

No speculating, like everyone on this thread I don't know exactly what Toyota does. I'm just pointing out that main bearing and connecting rod clearances use "select fit" manufacturing where every bearing journal diameter is measured optically and then the robot selects the correct thickness bearing shells to achieve target clearance. If you want a different clearance you change the target in the automated equipment. It would be pretty easy if they already build in batches for different regions but I doubt they do it since I doubt it's needed for any practical reason.

 

[C4T5]

I’ll be using Mobil ESP 0w-30 only for the fact that this engine has been proven by UOAs on BITOG to be a fuel diluter. The extra HTHS will allow a bit more headroom before fuel dilution gets out of recommended range and therefore lowers the lubrication qualities to a concerning level.

 

[127.0.0.1]

I’ll be using Mobil ESP 0w-30 only for the fact that this engine has been proven by UOAs on BITOG to be a fuel diluter. The extra HTHS will allow a bit more headroom before fuel dilution gets out of recommended range and therefore lowers the lubrication qualities to a concerning level.

it's not some mystery or major problem that UOA can reveal

all Toyota D4S engines can experience fuel dilution. Driving habits
may make it more prominent on some engines vs others.
----
From TIS on this engine


HINT:

A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, engine oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.

• When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine.
• If low quality engine oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used.
• When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load (when towing, etc.), or when accelerating or decelerating frequently while driving.
• When idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic.

When judging the amount of oil consumption, keep in mind that the oil may have become diluted, making it difficult to judge the true level accurately.

-----
Modern Toyota engines, such as those with the D-4S system, use extremely low-friction materials (like special resin-coated bearings). This design easily accommodates minor levels of fuel dilution without suffering from premature bearing wear or component damage.

constant short trips and starts/stops on a cold engine
is considered severe and increases fuel dilution the most

 

[C4T5]

Just because they acknowledge fuel dilution occurring doesn’t in any way negate the fact that when fuel hits a certain % in the oil it can lower the Cst below the threshold of what is acceptable for a specific weight. My point of starting with a higher HTHS and Cst allows more headroom for current UOAs showing dilution above recommended levels still holds water . A manufacturer saying “don’t worry “ isn’t good enough for me to take as gospel when we have data to analyze.

 

[Nodak]

and for some, the resolution for dilution is more frequent oil changes.

instead of the oem of 10k intervals, i personally did 5k previously, but have switched to 4k intervals (based on AMD on CCnut). i know some old school die hards still do 3k intervals.

 

[Gumpus]

I’ll be using Mobil ESP 0w-30 only for the fact that this engine has been proven by UOAs on BITOG to be a fuel diluter. The extra HTHS will allow a bit more headroom before fuel dilution gets out of recommended range and therefore lowers the lubrication qualities to a concerning level.

Just a comment (not a vote or recommebdation). There are even more oil threads on Miata forums than 4Runner. My personal take on the bottom line:

0W-30 is a good choice for those that want to run heavier weight oil. It's hard to argue that 5W-anything isn't worse for cold starts. (I use the weight shown on the filler cap).

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum may be "the best" oil since it meets even more standards than Mobil 1. (I use Mobil 1)

I'll always remember the one comment from a Mazda engineer just calmly saying the oil is part of a system. (I agree with this). In engineering one doesn't change a component without understanding the impact on the systems that the component affects like the lubrication system, variable valve timing system, and cooling system.

My personal bottom line is that the 4R is sold "almost exclusively" in North America so even if 0W-20 is driven by fuel economy it's the oil the vehicle was designed to use and I expect the vast majority of pre-production Design Validation data (including durability) was taken with 0W-20 and then the vast amount of real customer usage data is based on 0W-20. The 5th Gen 4.0L 4Runner was rated the most reliable vehicle that you can buy and it specified 0W-20 since 2010. Other weight oils COULD BE "better" but you're basically dabbling in unknown space where the risk is "unintended consequences".

 

[Nodak]

as stated above, the 5th gen used the same oil spec as the 6th gen btw

and you people never complained about that vehicle using 0w-20



the only difference was the spec changed over the years, but the weight never did.

2022-2024 Toyota 4Runner 4.0L models use or ILSAC GF-6 SAE 0W20 oil type*
2014-2021 Toyota 4Runner 4.0L models use or ILSAC GF-5 SAE 0W20 oil type*
2010-2013 Toyota 4Runner 4.0L models use ILSAC GF-4 or ILSAC multigrade SAE 0W20 oil type*

 

[SouthCoast]

as stated above, the 5th gen used the same oil spec as the 6th gen btw

and you people never complained about that vehicle using 0w-20



the only difference was the spec changed over the years, but the weight never did.

And yet, they still didn't take the time to verify international manuals to see if Toyota spec'd alternative viscosities as acceptable...which they did.

 

[Nodak]

And yet, they still didn't take the time to verify international manuals to see if Toyota spec'd alternative viscosities as acceptable...which they did.

except the 4Runner nameplate is only made for the usa (south america as a hilux surf i think). it is not sold anywhere else in the world. if you want to group in the hilux surf and the fortuner you could but they dont have that engine in those models if i remember correctly. the land cruiser prado is the replacement for those markets that cant get the 4runner.

why would they verify a vehicle that is only sold mainly in the usa for the world?

 

[CO/ZA]

We're not evaluating only the 4Runner.

The same engine is used in the Highlander/Kluger, Crown, Land Cruiser 250, Tacoma, Vellfire, Lexus NX, TX, RX, etc. that are exported globally.

 

[127.0.0.1]

except the 4Runner nameplate is only made for the usa (south america as a hilux surf i think). it is not sold anywhere else in the world. if you want to group in the hilux surf and the fortuner you could but they dont have that engine in those models if i remember correctly. the land cruiser prado is the replacement for those markets that cant get the 4runner.

why would they verify a vehicle that is only sold mainly in the usa for the world?

2026 4runner
sold in Canada
sold in Mexico
sold in Chile
sold in Columbia
sold in El Salvador
sold in Guatemala

...and more
some of these regions are similar to SET arrangements

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