Hybrid behavior in cold weather - electric motor spooling up less?

[RogueWarrior65]

I bought my TH in May and now that it's January, it seems like I see the Max gauge (the electric motor part of the system) spooling up less than I did in warmer weather. Or maybe the dealer screwed something up when I had to have an oxygen sensor replaced. Or I'm just crazy. Anyone else seeing this?

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[127.0.0.1]

replacing an A/F sensor or O2 sensor would not in any way change the Hybrid system logic other than provide better more accurate data

and a dealer or master technician can not in any way change how the hybrid system logic operates unless they get a firmware update from toyota

the hybrid system does operate differently depending on ambient temps and it changes how HVAC operates and how it's own cooling circuits operate in response to outside temps yes

 

[Nodak]

typical work day in ND winter

1. start the vehicle
2. back out garage
3. drive out the subdivision, the electric motors engages quite a bit in the subdivision but only seems to last about 30-60 seconds after start up
4. get out of the sub division and bottom of hill stop sign
5. afterwards, electric will not engage unless
   1. going up a incline
   2. engage gas pedal more than a 1/3 or 1/2

i can fiddle with the gas pedal going down hill to get it to stop the engine and go electric mode as long as i dont go past 1/3 or 1/2 engagement of the battery gauge, otherwise the gas engine will restart

i have a long 1/4 mile down hill trip to the sub division if i came from the south and i play the electric mode game to coast all the way down in electric mode and thru the sub division.

coming to the sub division going northbound i cant play the electric mode game.

its coming to the point after about 6 months i probably will stop playing the electric motor games and just drive it like i normally do (ie: i really dont care about mpg)

i mean we remote start, idle and get crap mpg whether we are in the 23 tundra or now the 25 4runner.

i mean we avg about 12 mpg lifetime so far on the tundra over the last 3 yrs and i only avg 16 mpg on the 2014 across 12 yrs. i dont expect much better in the 25 4urnner.

i didnt buy it for the better mpg, i bought it for the better creature comforts over my 2014.

and trust me the improvements over my 2014 limited vs the 25 platinum are huge comfort wise.

and i dont care how the 2nd row or cargo space is, i barely use them. once every 45-60 days for the dog and once a year trip to ga to see my mom from nd and its only me across 1700 miles 1-way.

 

[MikeD]

My experience is that the cold weather absolutely limits the engine shut-off/hybrid only mode for short trips. I seem to need to drive 10+ miles in moderately cold weather before the engine will shutoff at all - and still much less than warm weather. I do experience the traction motor engaging (Blue "MAX" boost) at initial acceleration after backing out of driveway - but this is with engine on (1500-2500 RPM) not Hybrid only mode - and then it does not show up again except for after big warmup or when accelerating hard.

 

[kzrman]

My experience is that the cold weather absolutely limits the engine shut-off/hybrid only mode for short trips. I seem to need to drive 10+ miles in moderately cold weather before the engine will shutoff at all - and still much less than warm weather. I do experience the traction motor engaging (Blue "MAX" boost) at initial acceleration after backing out of driveway - but this is with engine on (1500-2500 RPM) not Hybrid only mode - and then it does not show up again except for after big warmup or when accelerating hard.

I have experienced the same thing in my TH. My theory is that it needs the heat from the engine to heat the cabin. I'm pretty sure that the hybrids do not have heat pumps in them, and therefor can't use just electricity to heat or cool the cabin.

 

[MikeD]

I have experienced the same thing in my TH. My theory is that it needs the heat from the engine to heat the cabin. I'm pretty sure that the hybrids do not have heat pumps in them, and therefor can't use just electricity to heat or cool the cabin.

Interesting and potentially valid theory. Guess I need to try shutting off the climate control and see if there is an impact....

 

[JfromVA]

I too have noticed that my gas engine has a tendency to stay running when it's cold. I feel like it's around the 45ish degree mark.

 

[Oldhoosier]

I have noticed the same thing. The car has to be pretty well warmed up before the electric motor will take over, especially in traffic. I think I read somewhere in the 700 page owners manual that’s the way it’s designed. The engine needs to be up to operating temperature before the electric kicks in very much.

 

[Cranberry]

The hybrid gen 6 was specifically designed to prioritize gas over electric in conditions where the electric components would hinder the vehicles performance. This was to ensure redundancy in catastrophic failure so you dont get trapped in a secluded area and cant get home should the hybrid components fail. Theoretically, and according to Toyota, if the hybrid system ever fails on the 4Runner, you can still drive the truck without fixing the hybrid system, although u may see warning lights on the dash constantly telling you to see the dealer.

The gas motor is always priority first in its design. The electric side only comes in if all other systems are 100% functional. If the electrical side fails, the truck will still function normal in prioritize gas motor use.

The 4Runner hybrid was not made to be fuel efficient although it is a substantial upgrade from the Gen 5 when it comes to efficiency. It was designed to provide 2 things

1) compliance with new and upcoming regulations specifically requiring fuel efficient ratings or hybrid ability.

2) power compensation to ensure the 4 cylinder was adequately comparable or better then the gen 5 V6.

The electric motor on the Gen 6 is designed to only comes on when it is absolutely required, or the conditions are good enough to substantiate its use and not compromise efficiency.

 

[chrt]

I've noticed a temperature-based difference in hybrid engagement as well.

Leaving my house in the morning, I have a few stop signs in quick succession before I drive some distance. The hybrid system will engage willfully at the first 2 stops. By the time I get to the 3rd a mile down the road, the hybrid will not engage from a dead stop. Along my entire ~10 mile drive afterwards, the system barely engages. If I remote start for a few minutes before leaving, the hybrid system will not engage at any stops. I have a similar drive on my way home from work, and the same thing happens. Definitely engine temperature related.

 

[Cranberry]

I've noticed a temperature-based difference in hybrid engagement as well.

Leaving my house in the morning, I have a few stop signs in quick succession before I drive some distance. The hybrid system will engage willfully at the first 2 stops. By the time I get to the 3rd a mile down the road, the hybrid will not engage from a dead stop. Along my entire ~10 mile drive afterwards, the system barely engages. If I remote start for a few minutes before leaving, the hybrid system will not engage at any stops. I have a similar drive on my way home from work, and the same thing happens. Definitely engine temperature related.

No matter the acceleration or aggressiveness u see no hybrid take over at all?

 

[Cranberry]

I would be curious if people seeing this can also post the temperatures you are in when it happens.

I would be curious if it becomes more prevalent the colder it is.

I suspect it may even disengage the hybrid motor on cold conditions to prioritize heat for cabin comfort and cold climate performance

 

[chrt]

No matter the acceleration or aggressiveness u see no hybrid take over at all?

I am just talking normal driving, not overly aggressive. I honestly have never had an issue with the hybrid engaging when a "get on it". But that isn't the issue here.

I would be curious if it becomes more prevalent the colder it is.

Colder temperatures definitely impacts the hybrid system engagement. Even going from high-20s to the 40s I can see the system engage more.

 

[Cranberry]

In reading the Toyota engineering to the system. It should always engage the hybrid motor if you push for hard acceleration and power, regardless of temperature.

If you are seeing it not prioritize the hybrid motor when its cold, try experimenting by hitting the gas a little harder or giving it hard acceleration and see if the hybrid suddenly kicks in (it should).

 

[bakutheleo]

I cannot comment on very cold temperatures (I am in Southern CA) but I have noticed the electric provides much more boost when the engine is cold. The engine heats up *very* quickly (within a couple minutes) then the electric backs off. It still engages when I push it, or of course when the gas engine shuts down and I keep it easy (as said here, keeping it below the 1/2 boost level). I suspect this cold engine behavior is to reduce the load on the cold engine to improve longevity.

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