Bad measurements after SXTH Element cold air intake

[Vincenzo]

Their power numbers are likely better because it makes it run a little bit leaner. Right after install you will see higher power numbers because open loop fueling is leaner than factory. After you drive it for a while the long term fuel trims will compensate for this and air fuel ratio will return to normal and I would expect the power gains to be reduced. MAF location only affects the calculated airflow, and can be influenced by how close the MAF is to a bend, etc.

This wouldn’t be the same for all CAIs?

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[xp0nex]

What I learned is, do not do power mods without data logs and a proper tune. Got it.

 

[CAMTuning]

This wouldn’t be the same for all CAIs?

I like these types of discussions and the answer is yes and no. Here's why:
1. Yes some intakes will show an initial gain until long-term fuel trims populate. That initial gain may be greater than the gain that it would see over time if it was allowed to continue to run a bit leaner.
2. Running a little bit leaner is not the only reason an intake will make more power. If it truly reduces turbo inlet pressure and improves overall air flow will still increase power. This is the power that you still see even after airflow compensation has been made through the ECU calibration. The ECU is calibrated properly; fuel trims should be close to or even better than factory but the power improvement from better air flow will still remain.

 

[CAMTuning]

What I learned is, do not do power mods without data logs and a proper tune. Got it.

On some platforms or with some intakes, that is definitely the case. In the case of this platform the intakes that I have seen, with the exception of a couple, all run within the allowable authority of the ECU to make adjustments. You are not going to hurt one of these engines by running it without a tune. You are also not going to realize the improvement in power that you would if you did tune it.

 

[AmericanAdventureLab]

I like these types of discussions and the answer is yes and no. Here's why:
1. Yes some intakes will show an initial gain until long-term fuel trims populate. That initial gain may be greater than the gain that it would see over time if it was allowed to continue to run a bit leaner.
2. Running a little bit leaner is not the only reason an intake will make more power. If it truly reduces turbo inlet pressure and improves overall air flow will still increase power. This is the power that you still see even after airflow compensation has been made through the ECU calibration. The ECU is calibrated properly; fuel trims should be close to or even better than factory but the power improvement from better air flow will still remain.

How would this learning curve apply to fuel efficiency? If I put an intake on ours, it would be more for regaining some of the economy that we lost with the lift/tires/roof rack. I understand its all relative to the style of driving, and more power should typically render slightly better economy if all of the variables are controlled, but I'd like to pick your brain on it some. Thanks!

 

[CAMTuning]

How would this learning curve apply to fuel efficiency? If I put an intake on ours, it would be more for regaining some of the economy that we lost with the lift/tires/roof rack. I understand its all relative to the style of driving, and more power should typically render slightly better economy if all of the variables are controlled, but I'd like to pick your brain on it some. Thanks!

It likely would not have a huge impact if any on fuel efficiency. The biggest impact I've seen to fuel efficiency after adding lift and tires is by custom calibration, particularly tuning the transmission so that the engine is working in a more efficient range. Lugging a small engine like this can result in the worst case for fuel economy and that often happens when you put bigger tires on and the transmission is trying to keep the truck in a higher gear.

 

[CAMTuning]

This is a great discussion and it gave me a good idea for my regular tuning discussion thread so I just finished writing this up:
Session 12: Airflow Numbers, Intakes, and Why Some Gains Don’t Stick
https://www.4runner6g.com/forum/thr...nner-like-we-do-at-camtuning.8232/post-116819

 

[Vincenzo]

I like these types of discussions and the answer is yes and no. Here's why:
1. Yes some intakes will show an initial gain until long-term fuel trims populate. That initial gain may be greater than the gain that it would see over time if it was allowed to continue to run a bit leaner.
2. Running a little bit leaner is not the only reason an intake will make more power. If it truly reduces turbo inlet pressure and improves overall air flow will still increase power. This is the power that you still see even after airflow compensation has been made through the ECU calibration. The ECU is calibrated properly; fuel trims should be close to or even better than factory but the power improvement from better air flow will still remain.

Is this legitimate information?

 

[CAMTuning]

Is this legitimate information?

I'd say it's mix of good and “depends how they got it.”

Using inches of water (inH₂O) for pressure drop is solid. That’s a standard way to measure restriction across an intake, so that part of the data is meaningful.
If that airflow was measured with a calibrated flow bench or an external device (like an anemometer setup)then it’s real airflow data.
If it’s coming from the vehicle’s MAF, then it’s only as accurate as the calibration. Change the intake, change the MAF housing or flow characteristics, and now you’ve potentially changed how the sensor reports airflow, not necessarily how much air is actually moving.
You can end up with charts showing “more airflow” when in reality you may just be seeing a shift in how it’s being measured.
Pressure drop = good, real data
Airflow = only valid if you know how it was measured
We all know that Banks is a long-standing U.S. company and they have great engineers and a real test facility. While I want to have high confidence in this graph, the engineer in me still wants to know how the air flow data was collected.

 

[AmericanAdventureLab]

It likely would not have a huge impact if any on fuel efficiency. The biggest impact I've seen to fuel efficiency after adding lift and tires is by custom calibration, particularly tuning the transmission so that the engine is working in a more efficient range. Lugging a small engine like this can result in the worst case for fuel economy and that often happens when you put bigger tires on and the transmission is trying to keep the truck in a higher gear.

Now we're talking. I'm assuming that is something you could help with, no?

 

[CAMTuning]

Now we're talking. I'm assuming that is something you could help with, no?

Just say the word! You'll be surprised the difference it can make.

 

[AmericanAdventureLab]

Just say the word! You'll be surprised the difference it can make.

Oh I bet! How far from St. George, UT are you?

 

[CAMTuning]

Oh I bet! How far from St. George, UT are you?

9 hours.
There is no need to come in though. 99% of the 4Runners and Tacomas I tune are done remotely. You provide me datalogs and I make adjustments based on those and driver requests.

 

[AmericanAdventureLab]

9 hours.
There is no need to come in though. 99% of the 4Runners and Tacomas I tune are done remotely. You provide me datalogs and I make adjustments based on those and driver requests.

Copy that! I'll make sure to hollar when I'm ready for that!

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